Remember that Xbox I said I was selling?
Well, I sold it. 2 MONTHS AGO (September 11 – ironically, it’s so old Ebay doesn’t even show it in their records any more). Just a week ago I got notice that the buyer filed a fraudulent claim notice (yes, 2 months later), and we were required to provide the tracking ID of the shipment or they were going to reverse the charge (which had already been approved and put in our bank!). The problem is, because it had been almost 2 months since we sold it, we threw away the tracking receipt just 3 days before they gave us notice of the claim.
So my wife just spent over an hour talking to at least 6 (she lost track) representatives at Paypal trying to figure out where our money went. Finally, after the 6th or so representative (she was in tears after the call) she was able to figure out that the buyer, supposedly had their account hacked and had contacted Paypal to have the charges reversed. Rather than take the risk upon themselves though, Paypal put a claim dispute in each and every seller’s account who had shipped their items 2 MONTHS AGO giving them no option other than that if they couldn’t produce a tracking number they would have their funds reversed, taking the money back from their bank account. It’s a nice “Merry Christmas” just one month before the Holiday.
That’s what Paypal Seller Protection is for, right? Wrong.
Evidently, for fraudulent claims Paypal/Ebay is allowed to reverse transactions long after the transaction if you can’t provide a tracking number for the transaction. We showed them the positive review from the buyer, and they weren’t willing to accept that. It’s (like my Xbox issue from before) “we’re right – you’re wrong”, no trust whatsoever. So now, 2 months after the fact, it’s almost as though they waited for us to throw away the tracking receipt for shipment, and then forced us to give them back their money. I absolutely cannot trust Ebay/Paypal Seller Protection any more. How do I know this won’t happen again?
Man, I should really get into the shipment scamming game – heck, maybe I should just start my own Auction business like Ebay. Both the scammers, and Ebay, just got away clean and free with my money and I have no protection in the matter.
As a seller, I can no longer trust Ebay. I will no longer sell through them again. I hope you, as a seller, will think twice as well as I’ve shared this example. Everyone is at risk.
Now to figure out how to sell the rest of my PC equipment…
Stay N' Alive 
eBay did the same thing to me 2 years ago. Don't have a PayPal or an eBay. The shipping scam is an epidemic, there is no protection for the seller, and the fees are just out of control.
Isn't their a digital record of the tracking number? I though UPS and Fedex kept digital records of those. This sucks. In the 90's I had a furniture store. I had a $6,000 sale reversed by the credit card company 5 months after the purchase. I'll never forget the emptiness in the pit of my stomach on that one.
Feel free to tip @techmeme on Twitter if you want this to get more
attention. This really opened my eyes.
Stephen, this was through USPS – can I go back and get 2 month old
transactions from them?
Sorry to hear about his Jesse. I try to use UPS always. I had an online account with a full account history.
This sucks, Jesse, I'm sorry to hear it and I have been in this position and probably will be here again. PayPal Chargeback. eBay has recently added Buyer Protection Program which works exactly the same way as a charge back and a certain segment of society could go wild with that, too. I've already had it happen. Tan gun set, received, all tracking info accounted for – claim: does not work, maybe used. No -straight from the factory~! While the guy has the gun eBay/PayPal holds the money and the guy asks me to ship another tan gun. Uh nope. I let him get his money back since he wanted to keep the original shipment. So he got his money and the entire tan gun set. I have another claim pending for an international customer saying the order never arrived. I can never prove whether it has or has not. It's all trust. I block bidders who do this to me and whenever I see one who's done it to another. I have my own blacklist and I'm willing to share.
Advice: Always put your tracking number into BOTH PayPal and eBay. I also keep it on record on the computer AND keep the stupid slips in envelopes for up to a year.
The tan gun guy actually left me awesome feedback like nothing happened. During the time it was happening, I checked what he was buying and bidding – he was obviously setting up a spray tan shop or something with multiple guns and professional equipment. I wonder how many he got the money back and the product because eBay has the new Buyer Protection Plan? Very frustrating, but it's still the best option for high traffic. We're still waiting for eBay and PayPal to protect their sellers. They ALWAYS find in favor of the buyer. The only chance you EVER have is that ship slip along with the USPS receipt. smh
If you go back through your banking and can get the receipt number for paying the shipping, you may have a chance getting the number.
I had a bad experience where someone hacked my acct and I had to pay the charges of putting up their merchandise. Was getting 8-10 calls a day from collectors for $26.80. That was 4 years ago and never used paypal or eBay since. I will never send money to paypal.
I've had similar bad experiences. Ironically there is even a website for people to share the same pain. Although in many cases the dollar amounts seem to have a couple extra zeros. Paypal has some amazing rights over your money with little recourse for the customer. To me it seems they assume all transactions are fraudulent until proven otherwise. I refuse to use paypal unless I absolutely have no other choice.
http://www.paypalsucks.com
That's terrible and the worst part is I hear these stories non-stop now. I feel like I'm on a tightrope using Paypal as my merchant account. I was an Ebay and Paypal user close to the beginning and it's been ridiculous watching them make so many terrible policy changes that screw over the good users. And for anyone who hasn't been keeping up with Ebay, their final value rates are now up to 9%, with Paypal taking another 3% or so. Try http://etsy.com for handmade items.
Yep, this is an extremely commonplace scam, and Paypal could not care less about fixing it. Their policies actively allow it, basically.
Paypal and eBay are not trustworthy places to sell, and they are not trustworthy places to send or receive money from.
You know, attorneys have three words for this: “class action suit”.
Granted, as a rule? It doesn't do as much for the average class member as the attorney or those named In the suit… But there's something undeniably appealing about the concept of seeing someone's hand whacked with a really big ruler when they steal from you because they can.
Not an attorney. Not saying it's worth the time or could even be brought to court. But if this had happened to me and I could prove it? I'd be finding one fast.
Argh. IPad ate my lengthy comment. Let's just go with: so sorry this happened to you Jesse!
Try Amazon auctions?
😦
This. It's why I'm still a loyal UPS fan.
I think the sheer number of people with similar experiences commenting on
this post should say something to an attorney. I would see $$$ if I were an
attorney looking at this. There's huge potential here.
Paypal sometimes seems like the online money Mafia. They do what they want to “protect against” fraud and that is that.
I would say if any of you have an actual merchant account like I do you would know that its not PayPal or Ebay that”takes your money” if a chargeback is filed it is up to the buyers issuing credit card not PayPal on whether or not the moeny gets refunded. I sell on my website as well as ebay and its part of doing business online. If someone files a buyer complain or a chargeback I just keep all the records and provide that information to PayPal. Generally I can win the dispute and if its over $250 I alway ship with delivery confirmation so that I win 99% of claims for products over $250. You have to do your part as a seller and can't just blame someone else.
Ricky, we did our part – we kept our records for almost 2 months and it
wasn't until then that we were contacted about it. Yes, the buyer is also
at fault, but in this case it is Ebay/Paypal that is offering seller
protection, and therefore they have an obligation to take the burden on
themselves, especially if there was positive review stating they received
the item. They can't come to us 2 months later and say they want their
money back – that's just crummy business!
Unfortunatly buyers are liars when selling anything whether its a business on a website or on ebay keep your records because if that buyer goes and files a chargeback through their credit card visa or whoever is going to do their best to side with their customer they don't care about us merchants. In that case they take the funds from PayPal who in turn hold the funds from us. I'm assuming that this is a credit card chargeback because buyer protection from ebay lasts 45 days so look into that and point out that this is over 45 days if it is a paypal dispute, but if its a chargeback all you can do is provide all the documentation to show the customer received it and show that they buyer left positive feedback
Ah I see. That's a good question. I don't know. You would think it would be in their computers, but I don't know. This is what computers are for! Best of luck.
[…] SELLERS BEWARE: How Ebay Swindled Me $230 | Stay N' Alive […]
>> positive review from the buyer
This wouldn't help as credit card company which has taken money from paypal for buyer chargeback will not consider this as evidence.
Regarding 60 days, some CC companies even allow charge backs to be raised by the user up to 1 year after purchase.
Even if you set up your site you cannot still stop this, as the number of fraudulent buyers are present throughout the globe.
Only thing that will save you is strictly follow paypal terms and conditions
>> positive review from the buyer
This wouldn't help as credit card company which has taken money from paypal for buyer chargeback will not consider this as evidence.
Regarding 60 days, some CC companies even allow charge backs to be raised by the user up to 1 year after purchase.
Even if you set up your site you cannot still stop this, as the number of fraudulent buyers are present throughout the globe.
I hate ebay. I use membe.co.uk I think its new but its free and I LOVE them.
I've recently had horrific experiences of my own regarding ebay and paypal. My husband and I both got laid off 6 months ago and I started selling things around the house thinking that I was doing some good for my family…wrong thanks to the screwed up policies on both sides we're now in the negative,and there seems to be nothing I can do about it. I'm done, I will never use ebay again.
[…] }); or Most of you know my relationship with Paypal. They sent my wife away in tears on a recent Ebay transaction, and their customer service can be horrible at times (I’m now […]